» The Gooner World

Here's the introductory post -

Performance -> Illusionary and Deceptive
A former argument/discussion about Robbie Keane brought to my attention anassumption that I had thought of earlier. Keane's spot-kick at the Emirates was deemed to be a poor one and he was also said to have utterly scuffed theoppurtunity to score, which could have further resulted in a victory. Worst case scenario(for us ofcourse) , if Alumunia would have wrongly predicted his chosen direction, it would be all so different.

Newspapers would be full of one liners such as 'Ice-Man Keane puts Spurs through', 'Robbie's Spot Kick Makes gunners Groggy', so on and so forth. The point I would quote here is that how many of us, or even journalists and football experts for thatmatter of fact, would judge a penality as being poor even if it finds the back of the net. Or the other way round if the kick is good, yet fails to reach the back of the net. So arent we all fickle minded in one way or another?

Now coming to a similar view point, How important are stats for adjuging the successof a player? Is playing a role statistically, (as in scoring goals and making assists) theouly route to footballing recognition? I ask this ardently, as many a time Gallas put up stalwart performances. But none got him the credit as much as the Goals in thematches against United,Chelsea and Wigan did. He was instantaneously titled as'Captain fantastic'.

Ultimately, Do stats lure us into percieving football diffrently than how it actually is?

Some reactions -

..
wen the team as a whole performs well, its difficult to giv credit to individual performances....

on the othr hand, solo efforts that are successful..(fr eg. a penalty scored by striker/saved by keeper , a goal scored with/without an assist...) are immediately noticable and hence given creditits

like wen a single player plays a vital role in the outcome he is immediately noticedbut wen a player co-operates well with other players and does his job perfectly it isnt noticable as a brilliant performance to most people....

even then, strikers and midfielders always get much more attention than defenders (atleast Goalkeepers' saves are noticed, but still not as well applauded as a goalscorer...)
..

..
You made some good points.I think few people would term a penalty as 'bad' even if it hit the back of the net. Technically, the best penalty is the one which would find the back of the net regardless of whether the GK guessed the correct way or not. On the other hand, a penalty can be 'good' even if it doesn't find the net, that just counts as a 'good' save.

As far as the stat thing goes, it is difficult to quantify a defender's performance in terms of statistics and numbers (it is possible, though not very tangible, unlike a midfielder being judged based on his assists/goals).

And it is possible for players to have good games at a stretch without the stats reflecting so, however I think the law of averages catches up in the long run. What I am saying is, a player may play well and be vital to a team for maybe 10 games or so, without that reflecting upon his statistics (maybe someone like Rosicky for eg). However, for a midfielder to consistently give good performances without any assists/goals, for say 5-6 years, that's just too much of a co-incidence (again, refer Rosicky's stats for the Czech national team)
...

Result

Portsmouth 0 - Arsenal 0

Teams :

Portsmouth* 01 James* 04 Lauren* 23 Campbell* 15 Distin* 07 Hreidarsson* 25 Benjani* 08 Diop* 22 Hughes* 11 Muntari* 19 Kranjcar* 27 KanuSubstitutes* 31 Begovic,* 06 Traore,* 14 Taylor,* 10 Nugent,* 17 Utaka

Arsenal* 24 Almunia* 03 Sagna* 05 Toure* 10 Gallas* 22 Clichy* 27 Eboue* 16 Flamini* 04 Fabregas* 13 Hleb* 07 Rosicky* 25 AdebayorSubstitutes* 01 Lehmann,* 02 Diaby,* 08 Diarra,* 17 Song Billong,* 26 Bendtner

Reactions:

..strange that Wenger brought on Bendtner so late; oh well we drop to second and trail by one point. Lets give the Mancs that small headstart for the moment Fabregas has droppped some form; gave away the ball and just wasnt there when he got a pass from a colleague. Credit to Almunia though cuz Benjani could have won it for us and Rosicky and Gallas had good chances to win it for us. In the end neither team dominated and you could say a draw was a fair result. Was funny to see Eboue get down on his knees and plead with the ref to not give him a yellow card.Rosicky was our best player on show today...

..I got to say: we lost this game because Wenger.Since Robin got injuried the team isnt playing well only with Adebayor. Everytime Bendtner enter in the game, the team starts to play well. Just like with Tottenham, today, and another games. If he dont use Bendtner or Robin, we will lose this premier league. ..

.. if arsenal wanna be champions then we cant play the way we ave been playing...not only today but over the last 2 monthsmost of the games have been unconvincing wins...thats not how champions playmanu started slow but they have been on a good run and their wins have been convincinglast game arsenal deserved to win was reading ...after that none of the games we really deserved to winwigan, chelsea, aston villa, newcastle, middlesbrough , portsmouth..if it had been 1 or 2 games it wud b ok but these many games is not good..not the way to become champions from what i saw today the good start has gone to the heads of the players...too much praise and too many interviews in the newspapers has made them overconfidentfabregas and adebayor were really pathetic..and wenger needs to understand that ade is just not good enough to play lone striker ..we won earlier bcoz we wer lucky but we wont win everytime..and he needs to be bold to make some decisionsfabregas wasnt plahyin well..he shud have substituted him and got bendtner on earluerade needs to take his chances ..he has scored a lot i agree but he misses a lot more than those...its ok when arsenal r plyin good .hel get many chances and score a couple but like in todays game he got only 2-3 chances but wasted them...he has to be capable of taking more chances damn thats long...im really disappointed at arsenal..not only for today bt over the last couple of months ..they have become overconfident..

..Come on , the match was not that bad. Its not easy to create chances against a team like Portsmouth. You guys are speaking like Arsenal were pathetic. We created a very good chance in the final minute of the game. That chance was wasted by Rosicky. It wasnt a waste, he tried, the shot didnt miss by much. Its football, it happensCant believe you're blaming Wenger for everything. Instead of blaming Wenger you should give credit to our opponents today who played well. We are only 1 point behind Manchester United at the moment and there is still a long season to go. Portsmouth is a great team and a draw against them is easy to digest. ..

...am talkin as a neutral ... portsmouth is a very good side defensively .. and fratton park is a very tough place 2 get result.. but arsenal never luked lyk scoring... and not only arsenal i think any team wud find it hard 2 get a result against pompy so chill and luk at the next match its an easy 1 away 2 goodison..

...Today we didn't play like we were the no.1 team in the league..too much dependance on Fabregas and bad finishing by Ade and Rosicky led to this draw.

I know all are frustrated but we are all over-reacting coz Manu has taken 1 pt lead. But its still mid way down the league and you have seen from the past years how things can change towards the end. We now have a really tough game ahead and Wenger needs to put his thinking hat on and device a strategy to salvage a must win game against Everton.

Go Gunners! ..

..fatigue is no excuse, manager must know if the players are tired or sthg, he should then make some changes in the team, rosicky adebayor could have been rested giving eduardo and bendter chance, adebayor could be broght for the last 20 minutes, we have large enough squad to be able to change 2 or 3 players, i know we have difficult gmaes in the festive period as compared to man u and may be if we win our next two mathes it will be a good return out of the four games, but only thing i want is to play 2 upfront, be positive in our approach and for god sake dropping eboue out of the squad ...

..I think the best chance was the gallas chance where he just had to tap it from 3 ft. Benjani still had a lot to do after he made the run and Almunia did well to come out quickly. Arsenal created few chances but they lost because they couldnt get enough shots on target...

...think that this glut of too many matches is taking its toll on the players...... and there is a remedy for that situation....... wenger must stop being so 'economical' and frugal and bolster this squad!!!i do believe that ade should have been substituted much much earlier..... bendtner would have created a lot more problems, bayo looked listless... fatigue or not, keeping him on the pitch that long was a folly in hindsight!!!!!!!fab was looking very ordinary.... would have subbed him and had rosicky take over the middle of the park, rocket looked lively even if he scuffed a good chancewhat has bothered me is the lack of a plan b, and the reluctance to make things happen from arsene, and lemme elaborate.................... bringing on diaby on the left of the field..... was THAT OUR ANSWER?!?!?!?!?IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN WE NEED TO SERIOUSLY RE CONSIDER THE BALANCE OF THIS SQUAD!!! take a good look at our midfield , it is cluttered with central players..... no edge, no variety, walcott and eboue are playing out of position and still doing reasonably well.wenger seems to have his carling cup side and his epl side and the two shall never meet!!!it was disheartening to watch this game not for the result, but for the lack of innovation on the field, and as someone rightly mentioned, the last few matches have been verry unconvincing !!hope we get back to our winning ways!!!...


..I don't think the problem was tactics, the team is doing well under the 4-5-1 formation. The problem today was our midfield, Cesc and Hleb played poorly, they've shown no criativity and were apathetic. Rosicky was the only man in the midfield who made a good perfomance, but he missed a chance he should have not.

Adebayor made a poor game aswell, he didn't show the will he usually does, he didn't seem concentrated and couldn't control the ball well; the ball always seemed a bit too floppy on his feet.

We could have won though, 'cause Bendtner is a real match decider. I think Wenger's bigger mistake today was not to put him on the pitch earlier. He played for only few minutes and created the best chance of the match, but Rosicky failed to score.But we're just one miserable point behind, nothing's lost yet. ..

...
Our performance yesterday was inept..I dont understand why Bendtner was on the bench..whenever the Dane has come on he has looked danerous...he wins most of the headers and 50-50 challenges with the defenders..i dont know what Adebayor brings to our side..he is a great finisher but he is not able to impose himself on the game...After the half time he looks totally lost and ragged running tirelessly after the ball..Lets be honest he doesnt possess the skills the likes of RVP possess..But he has done a decent job this season..

Ques: Why do we go into a game with lone striker and Hleb as CAM??..What are we so defensive??..If its against Manu or Chelsea and the likes then its understandable..otherwise we should go in with a 4-4-2 with Edurado(good for nothing, hope he proves me wrong..) on the bench and we play either Hleb or Rosickyon the left, considering Eboue on the right flank..

I dont feel the need for players this Jan but the likes of Vela and Djourou will certainly add worth to the squad..though the prospect of Toure leaving for cup of nations looks ominous , we still have decent cover on the back...Eboue should seriously consider practicing shots on target..Edurado should start..hope RVP is fit for everton..its still Christmas folks we are half way through the season and just one point behind..good times ahead...Cheers..

...Well, the inevitable has happened, and this might prompt Mr. Wenger to get some players in January...The major problem with Wenger is that he trust his kids so much that he thinks his current bunch of kids will go on to win the BPL...Wenger thinks he has a squad deep enough to sustain pressure from Manu and Chelski and the likes, but in reality he doesn't!! So time to re-think your strategy, Wenger...When was the last time we had any convincing victory?? And Manu wont be easy to catch, considering their excellent form towards the end of the past few seasons..

..@ Those who think Eboue didn't perform well

Well, I must say, pay more attention to Eboue's game. He was good in the game. Providing crosses, making good runs, tackling players.

His shooting needs to improve : Umm okay, Ill take that. But I must say he has a lot of bad luck on his side. Always misses easy chances. Once he gets his goal, he would be bursting with confidence. ..

..
This result was threatening to spill over for a long time. It's been 4 or 5 games that Arsenal have won unconvincingly (don't start a Man Utd vs Arsenal by pointing Man Utd have done that too, lets stick with Arsenal for now).

It's clear that Wenger needs reinforcement, particularly with players like RvP not getting match fit quickly. He doesn't seem to have confidence in Eduardo (he wasn't even in the subs bench) and he's going to need cover for Eboue and Toure. Yes, managers don't buy for injuries but football is a funny game, we had all our CB's injured for the Milan game last season, and if Gallas gets injured, you are looking at Senderos and Gilberto as your center backs. Arsenal's problem is not physical teams anymore but teams which defend deep. Wenger will have to realise that not all teams are set to play attacking football, and with Arsenal up the table, more and more teams will play defensively by packing their midfield.

Arsene knows, but will he relent on his philosophy of signings? If he is trying to sign a player in January, he knows he'll be loathe to invest on players with potential and train them, but he'll have to pull a 'Henrik Larsson' like signing Fergie did last year. Good luck. ..

..
Ade should realize what his role in the current team is...He is a striker!! For Pete's sake...He tries to be imitate Henry by coming from the left wing and tries to dribble or zip past defenders like Henry, but actually he doesn't have the skills nor the composure to accomplish it....Wearing underwear above his pants, wont make him a super-man..

..
Denilson,Walcott,Eduardo,Diarra and Gilberto Gilberto - low on confidence, scrappy and not upto standards in any of his appearaces so far. Diarra - Utilty player in midfield and defence, where do you play him and for whom?Walcott - Impact player, play him for an entire match, teams figure him out easily. Could go either way, question marks on his fitness at the moment, but Wenger will not gamble. Eduardo - Wenger clearly doesn't have confidence in him.Denilson - Packs a shot, not yet ready for a tough grind like League. You can argue that you can find out only when you play them, but at the moment where even one match could put you under more and more pressure, is it worth it? ...

Like reactions here? You can discuss this and more at

http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=4553&tid=2573433340241596722

The introductory idea by paul

The idea just hit me recentlyI read about the Ajax team of the past playing Total FootballWhere every player can be an attacker and a defenderAnd watching Arsenal play now days,am i wrong to say that we r close to playing total football?When or full backs go forward our wingers go with them and our DM drops back into the void left behindWhen our DM goes forward our CM drops back to protect our back forwardWhen our CB goes forward,our DM becomes a CBWhen Adebayor drifts wide,Rosicky and Fabregas run into the middleOur team follows the principles of the long lost art of total footballWhat do u guys think?

Here are some follow ups -

....In my opinion we still havent reached the stage where we can say that yes arsenal does play total football all the time... I feel maybe by the end of this season if not the start of next season we may see arsenal playing total football....

....
Yup, we are close to it. What I would like to see next season is more fluidity in the positions up front during the game. Lets look at our forwards. I will list some of the other positions they have been used in so far this season.Bendtner - can play on the left wing, in the hole, he can link up play very well Walcott- on the right wing (has to improve on the right)Eduardo - on the left wing(has to improve on the left)RVP - on the right wingAde is one who will always stay in an advanced position.lets look at some players in the middle of the parkHleb plays in the hole, can play, left or right wing,Rosicky as well can play the same positions as Hleb.Flamini - plays DM but like to go forward for suppport and can also slot in as LB.Diaby - left wing and CMDenilson - Cm and I think he did play on the left wing in CC last year?Diarra - can play in defence and midfield.Fab is one who normally stays central because he is more effective there. but if the team becomes more fluid, he definitely has the capabilities to drift into other positionsOur defenders all like to go forward. We have seen Kolo and Gallas rushing out of defense as well as Song, yes Song , remember his pass to Eduardo in CC?The reason I have pointed out the positions is, to me Arsene seems to be making a deliberate effort to get players accostumed to diffeent positions. At the moment, once they start in a particular position, they tend to stay in that position for a majority of the time and I would like them to be a lot more fluid during the game, They are certainly capable of it. Once they start doing that, it will be virtually impossible to keep them in check. Ofcourse a LOT of practice will be needed for them to achieve that. While playing that brand, it will be important to make sure we are still strong defensively. And ofcourse, retaining possession is key. So we will probably not see it this year, but if the team sticks together, we should be much more closer to total football in the next season or two. ......

........We dont play Total Football..We play Wengerball!! ..........

......I dont think we play total football at the moment.We are capable of it n i think that by the end of the season we will play total football.Arsenal have played TF before during the unbeaten season.With Pires,Henry,Ljunberg,Reyes,Viera,Cashley Cole etc all of them continously going forward n scoring goals.Each pass would always find its target n each shot would almost always end into the back of the net.This season we are playing entertaining football but some of the passes go stray n sometimes we overplay a bit outside the box n take time to breakdown defence.During the unbeaten season we would just tear open the defence with Pires' passes n Henry's blistering runs.I think with a bit more practice Arsenal can play total football. ...

....The Dutch were the first to play this kinda football. They almost won the world cup with it. Arsenal seem to use this style as you can see are defenders drift forward too. ..

.........Its about playing football they way it should be. When you first start kicking the ball around the last thing to worry about is maintaining your positions. Somewhere down the line Science takes over and you learn only one or two aspects. What happened at Ajax, Holland were something beautiful and something so simple. In a few days we'll see something similar happening at Ashburton Grove....


.........Ajax and Holland were the chief architects of Total Football, which had players constantly shifting positions to undermine the opponents tactics, making space.I have to admit that i haven't seen the videos of the "orginal" total football, but have read enough to understand what it is and its effect.Total football had players, shifting their positions between themselves and players popping up in positions which would affect opposition the most.Arsenal with their short passing game, have the full backs overlapping the wingers, forming triangles with the striker and the winger, centre-backs regularly chipping in with regular runs forward.(Remember Toure's forward run against Fulham which won us the penality, Gallas' involvement in the 1st goal against Wigan)We have our machine, Flamini who has shown more intrest than his DM predecessors in joining in the attack.As Kautuk mentioned, we need to be a bit more fluid. Esp. our centre forwards, sometimes i feel Bayo could do better by going front often to provide the tap-ins.But, thats what Arsenal have always missed...For total football, we need to be strong defensively, fitness wise, good at retaining back the ball to curb the counter. .......

........Total football can't be done by 1 player,its a team thingUnited don't even come closeIts done with the players on the pitchwhen goes out of position,there will always be someone to take his place...

..........If taking the forward or midfield case, United are close to doing that, Rooney goes on the left or right flank, Tevez also goes to the flank (as we saw in he everton match), while Ronaldo and Giggs take central positions!Only Evra really succeeds at going forward (atleast now, because Neville is injured), so there are three defenders at the back! (Nobody takes the position of Evra from the midfield, so the defence isnt capable of what you guys are talking about.)Hope you know what i'm talking about....

....Arsenal play entertaining football, total football doesn't matter if you ask me, because when you are watching an Arsenal match, you expect to be at the edge of your seat, amazed at how the players are accustomed to each other. Arsenal are Arsenal for a reason, and thus they are the best in the EPL, and the local team is a local team for a reason, think about it. ...

.....commentators have watched football total football ... have you ?? when did u even first hear the term?? we at the moment r playing total football... hleb flamini rosicky n fab interchanging positioneboue n sagna interchanging sagna n toure interchanging toyre n gallas.... cliche n rosicky.. ade n rvp .. ade with the mid field ... gallas going forward he scored against MANU .. tour going forward taking chances..... what more do u want what else do you call total football ... may be i lack the sense n the knowledge or either i watch different games than you... please define total football help me to understand the term as well....

..... Arsenal don't play Total football...

... For n00bs Watch -

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cW20rH2AfA
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5YLG57a2GE

Focus on player positioning and movement.........


......Nowhere close to this.The goalkeepers positioning was excellent in the Holland Uruguay match. If we didnt know better the rest were just running around the park...

...Yeah you are right.Remember, Arsene Wenger is the only manager that I've heard of saying that he has a responsibility for those people who come to enjoy the football paying for the tickets. Ever heard that from another manager before? That is why we play very entertaining football. ...

..We play the best football being played in this physical era but we are no where near this fantastic total football... * Were these guys wizards by the way ?? Awesome stuff...

---
Liked the discussion? You can participate here -

http://www.orkut.com/CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=4553&tid=2573827289680477967&na=3&nst=31&nid=4553-2573827289680477967-2573920273559936335

Or leave a comment here ;-)

Portsmouth v Arsenal - EPL

Position :Portsmouth (7th EPL, 30/54 pts, Form - DWDWLL) Arsenal (1st EPL, 43/54 pts, Form - DLWWWW)

Kick off date :Dec/26/2007

Kick off Times:UK - 19:45 ; US Eastern -14:45; US Pacific - 11:45Telecast:UK - Sky Sports 1; US - Fox Soccer

Portsmouth haven't won against Arsenal for 49 years and its unlikely to be broken any time this year . Some reports suggest Wenger has traveled without RvP and Theo. This game will mark the half way point of the Premiership campaign, one which Arsenal were expected to struggle but now are at the top of the table. Fratton Park is a tough place for top 4 under Redknapp's command. The Portsmouth record against top 4 in the premiership after Harry took over is a impressive W5-D5-D8. They have managed to hold El'pool and ManYoo to draws this season.Arsenal play well on Boxing day. In the past decade they have dropped points just once on Boxing Day, a fantastic achievement. The game is on the South Coast with temperatures diving with each passing day. Arsenal are favorites at 4/6 with a draw at 9/4 . The odds say a 1-2 scoreline in favor of Arsenal.

----------

Some reaction for the game


....Arsenal didnt play there best football against spurs .Even if we are not at our best we can still make three points.If the statistics are right .The team which leads the EPL during Christmas time has a greatest possibility of winning the premiere league title.Arsenal this time they travel to Fratton park to take on a good portsmouth side.Yesterday at Anfield Portsmouth where sloppy defensively.Portsmouth form away has been good .But at home they have only won twice.Currently they stand 7th in the league.For me this wouldnt be the greatest of matches.But i would expect arsenal winning this one by 1-0 to stay on top .Rosicky to score for the gunners..Last five meetings against pompey PL, 02-09-07 Arsenal 3-1 Portsmouth PL, 13-05-07 Portsmouth 0-0 Arsenal PL, 16-12-06 Arsenal 2-2 Portsmouth PL, 12-04-06 Portsmouth 1-1 Arsenal PL, 28-12-05 Arsenal 4-0 Portsmouth Head to head P 65 W 28 D 23 L 14...

....... wenger- a manager genius"I think we have resulted by having Bendtner, 6ft 4ins, good in the air. He scored a great header. It is strange because when a guy comes on, you organise your team. For example Tottenham makes individual marking - 'you take him, you take him, you take him'. And there's a fraction of a second where you cannot communicate when a guy comes on, and you could see he was completely free. That's what happens sometimes because nobody on the pitch says 'you take this tall guy', and we scored.".....

......The only changes as far as i can see are Eboue dropping to bench and RVP coming in as striker with Hleb shifting to the right hand side of midfieldAnd maybe rosicky might be rested and Walcott might get a run,i doubt it thoughWalcott will get a sub appearance,same goes for Bendtner(who scored with his first touch)Adebayor better be careful,cause Bendtner is knocking on the door.......

.........
2 tough games coming up one this and then everton but we need to win and keep up the winning streak. RVP and probably theo to start , crucial question is will be how we keep benjani and the wily kanu quite, portsmouth will play an open game which should help us provided we play better than what we did against spurs. 2-1 to arsenal and how about a sublime goal from Eduardo late in the game. ..

...
1 game gone,now 3 left in almost one and a half weeks,if Arsenal really want to win the title,then they should be aiming for 9 pts out of next 3 games,but i would be happy if they managed to get at least 7 as i expect to Man utd to drop pts in 1 of these games.Coming to Portsmouth match,i guess there may be some changes,i expect RVP,Walcott and Diaby to start and maybe even Denilson.The reason is Wenger really needs to rotate his squad.He cant be playing with same 11 for 4 consecutive games in one and a half weeks.Its gonna be a tough game for gunners,but i expect Arsenal to bag 3 pts.Portsmouth 0-1 Arsenal,Diaby to score ...


....expecting Ade to score cuz our BRother from Togo always scores two games in a row.and once he scores we never lose so thats one headache out of the way will be nice to see our old mates Sol,Lauren and Kanu.....

....Their record at Fratton Park isn't too impressive against the record they have away from home. Seems like they should give away more tickets to Arsenal fans for the 'away' feeling. Anyways, Arsenal should win comfortably otherwise it will be a problem to face Everton and WHU after that because of fatigue. ...